House rules

August 26, 2008

Yes, gun-rights advocates can go too far. The Second Amendment does not trump property rights:

In 1987, Florida wisely affirmed personal freedom by letting law-abiding citizens get permits to carry concealed weapons. But this year, the legislature decided it was not enough to let licensees pack in public places. They also should be allowed to take their guns into private venues—even if the property owner objects.

The “take your guns to work” law says anyone with a conceal-carry permit has a legal right to keep his gun locked in his car in the company parking lot. Until recently, companies had the authority to make the rules on their own premises. But when it comes to guns, that freedom is defunct.

The National Rifle Association says any corporation that forbids firearms in its parking areas is violating the 2nd Amendment. That may sound like a promising argument, since the Supreme Court recently struck down a Washington, D.C., handgun ban as an infringement on the constitutional guarantee. It’s not.

Robert Levy, the Cato Institute lawyer who participated in the successful challenge of the Washington ordinance, says the Florida law “has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment.” The Constitution, he notes, is a limit on government power, not a constraint on what private individuals or corporations may do.

Of course, I would also argue that property owners have the right to say whether or not people can smoke on their property, too, and look how effective that argument has been lately. I’m afraid “my house, my rules” is destined to become one of those historical oddities like, oh, the 9th and 10th Amendments.

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11 Responses to “House rules”

  1. Harl Delos Says:

    I’m afraid “my house, my rules” is destined to become one of those historical oddities like, oh, the 9th and 10th Amendments.

    “is destined to”? I think you’re a little late, Leo.

    I’ve heard a lot of people express the notion to their kids that “I brought you into this world, and I can take you out” but that used to be true. Those who behaved badly could be punished by the pater familias harshly, including banishment, enslavement, or death – and the roman government endorsed this power.

    My prediction: once people start wearing openly-visible firearms in Disney World, tourists will decide to go to someplace like South Padre Island, and the state legislature will quickly repeal this law.

    The 10th Amendment seems to be widely ignored, but the 9th Amendment is the basis for the right of privacy, upon which Roe v. Wade was based.

    I think it may have been used in the lawsuits over the rights of gays to marry, but I’m not sure. I’d rather they have used the 1st amendment, freedom of religion, to assert that government may not recognize ANY marriage, since marriage is a religious rite, but the lawyers involved didn’t seem to think that would play in Peoria.

  2. Larry Morris Says:

    The issue of handguns being allowed locked in your vehicle at work if the company will not let you carry on premises is not a simple property owner’s right – it goes much further than that. It’s a property owner’s right if you, Leo, do not want me to carry on your property – I can leave it in my car parked on the street when I visit you. But if the company I work for denies me the ability to lock the firearm in my vehicle while I’m in the office, I cannot even have it with me on the way to and from work – that makes a big difference. Their decision is affecting my carry rights off their property also. We’re now in the process of fighting this in Texas, …


  3. Who is our government? That’s right – We The People! Who did We The People BIND from infringing upon our natural and inalienable rights? That’s right – We The People!

    “The right of self-defence NEVER ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals.”

    – President James Monroe, Nov. 16, 1818 message to the U.S. House and Senate. [Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, November 17th, 1818.]

    “We appealed to those of nature, and found them engraved on our hearts. . . . We established however some, although not all its important principles. The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent . . . . that it is THEIR RIGHT and DUTY to be AT ALL TIMES ARMED; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.”

    – Thomas Jefferson, June 5, 1824 letter to Major John Cartwright. [The Writings of Thomas Jefferson,(Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.]

    “The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed” means EXACTLY that which was written.

  4. Harl Delos Says:

    But if the company I work for denies me the ability to lock the firearm in my vehicle while I’m in the office, I cannot even have it with me on the way to and from work

    So instead of parking in their lot, park on the street, and walk to work from there.

    that it is THEIR RIGHT and DUTY to be AT ALL TIMES ARMED

    If, after I’ve invited you into my living room, I discover that you are carrying a gun, I’m going to interpret that in a manner you won’t enjoy.

    * either you are insulting me and my ability as a host to ensure the safety of my guests,
    * or else you intend to attack me when I turn my back.

    A baseball bat works quite nicely under such circumstances, but I have to warn you, it’s kinda messy, and your estate will be liable for blood-soaked furniture and rugs, for repainting the blood-spattered walls, and for resurfacing the floor where the blood has pooled.

    “The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall NOT be infringed” means EXACTLY that which was written.

    Take note of the context. It’s a document for the operation of a government, not for the operation of private enterprises and households. You have a right to keep and bear arms, but you don’t have the right to carry them onto my property any more than you have the right to walk into a gun shop and take something to keep and bear.

  5. Larry Morris Says:

    “So instead of parking in their lot, park on the street, and walk to work from there.”
    Some choice, Harl, perhaps you’ve never parked a can in Houston – the choice I had was to park on the street and probably get the vehicle stolen, and the firearm with it – or not carry a firearm and park in the secured garage, …

    “If, after I’ve invited you into my living room, I discover that you are carrying a gun, I’m going to interpret that in a manner you won’t enjoy. ”
    Those of us who carry, Harl, carry all the time – how would I know you didn’t want me to have a firearm on me in your house if you didn’t know I was carrying. Are you going to post a “no carry” sign on your front door ?

  6. Harl Delos Says:

    Some choice, Harl, perhaps you’ve never parked a can in Houston – the choice I had was to park on the street and probably get the vehicle stolen, and the firearm with it – or not carry a firearm and park in the secured garage, …

    Those aren’t your only choices. You could drive to a co-worker’s house, and ride with him. You could take a bus or a taxi. You could hitchhike to work.

    Or you could get a different job.

    It’s not really a secured garage if there are a bunch of people carrying around guns. No sense in the employer spending a lot of money on a secured garage if it isn’t secure.

    Those of us who carry, Harl, carry all the time – how would I know you didn’t want me to have a firearm on me in your house if you didn’t know I was carrying.

    If I didn’t know you were carrying, there wouldn’t be a baseball bat swinging at you, now, would there?

    If you want to dress for offense, that’s up to you – but remember Markonikov’s Law.

  7. Larry Morris Says:

    Man, … I give up again, …

  8. Harl Delos Says:

    The guy at the Portage Avenue WalMart was only charged with felony intimidation and trespassing – but then again, he was HONEST about it. He had his gun in a holster on his hip.

    You want to be dishonest about it, and sneak up on your victims. And then you’re outraged that someone might consider turning the tables on you?

    Why do you think you’re *special*?

  9. Larry Morris Says:

    How dare you call me dishonest – you pompous ass. I carry a concealed weapon because it’s a legal way to level the playing field with all the other asses out there who refuse to obey the law and prey on us as victims.
    Why don’t you stay on your own blog – all you’re doing here is chasing more people away from this one.

  10. Harl Delos Says:

    Dishonest?

    And the reason you conceal that gun?

  11. tim zank Says:

    Let it go Larry, it’s a futile effort brother!


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